Monday, April 28, 2008

the LINK between MAN and GOD

Got this from nefar007's deviantart journal :)


An Atheist Professor of Philosophy speaks to his Class on the Problem Science has with GOD, The ALMIGHTY.
He asks one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . ....
Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.
Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill.
But GOD didn't.
How is this GOD Good then ? Hmm ?
( Student is silent )

Professor : You can't answer, can you ?
Let's start again, Young Fella.
Is GOD Good ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From .. . . GOD . .. .
Professor : That's right.
Tell me son, is there evil in this World ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ?
And GOD did make Everything. Correct ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ?
( Student does not answer )
Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?

( Student has no answer )

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.
Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD ?
Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist.
What do you say to that, son ?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes. Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
( The Lecture Theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events )

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat,
a Little Heat or No Heat.
But we don't have anything called Cold.
We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as Cold.
Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.
We cannot Measure Cold.
Heat is Energy.
Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.
( There is Pin - Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )

Student : What about Darkness, Professor ? Is there such a thing as Darkness ?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness ?
Student : You're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is the Absence of Something.
You can have Low Light, Normal Light , Bright Light, Flashing Light . . .
But if you have No Light Constantly, you have Nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it ?
In reality, there is no Darkness.
If there is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you ?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is Flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how ?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.
You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD.
You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.
It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that
Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing.
Death is Not the Opposite of Life : just the Absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor, do you Teach your Students that they Evolved from a Monkey ?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir ?

( The Professor shakes his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument is going )

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this Process is an On - Going Endeavor,
are you not Teaching your Opinion, sir ?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher ?
( The Class is in Uproar )

Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever Seen the Professor's Brain ?
( The Class breaks out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever Heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, Touched or Smelt it ? . ... ..
No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that
you have No Brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir ?
( The Room is Silent. The Professor stares at the Student, his face unfathomable )
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . .
the Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Moving & Alive.

It turned out later that the student is Albert Einstein...


“Only in obedience can we discover the great joy of the will of God.”

25 comments:

markus said...

this one's really praise-worthy. thanks alot for posting this, sir gilbert.

Gio Paredes said...

If I were that student these are my answers.

Question 1
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.
Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill.
But GOD didn't.
How is this GOD Good then ? Hmm ?
-------
That is exactly how Good GOD is. He let your brother die so that they will be together in heaven. That is if your brother is a good man. Just imagine letting a person who has a lung cancer live forever and ever coughing on a bed. Wouldn’t that be cruel? Or let say a simple itch that never goes away. Yung makating makati tapos hindi matangal ang kati. Hindi ka makatulog, makakain, makapag trabaho. After years and years, with that thing, would you still want to live forever?

Question 2

Professor : So who created evil ?
( Student does not answer )
Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?
-------
Well you see professor, GOD gave us a thing called Free Will, (that includes angels).
It gave us the power to choose between good and evil.
When GOD created Satan, He was good. He was called Lucifer which means bearer of light. Only Satan had choose to be evil later on. It was his choice.
Immorality, Hatred and all these terrible things that you say was not created by God, but by the people that chooses to be evil.

Question 3

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.
Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD ?
Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist.
What do you say to that, son ?
--------
Professor….. God is the author of science …:-)
Q: Have I seen him? …..
A: No… he is way up in the heavens
Q: Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD ?
A: Yes… through the words in the Bible.
Q: Have you ever Felt your GOD?
A: Yes… through the good people I see every day.
Q: Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD ?
A: I think he might get offended if we do that.
You also forgot one sense. And that is our brain. Our ability to think.
Our body is one master piece created by God. It composed of many system.
Digestive, Respiratory, Circulatory, etc. and each one of those, do things in a remarkable way. Those things happens in our body does not happened by chance. Sinadya talaga iyon. That also goes to the molecular level. Why is it protons, electrons, neurons co-exist with harmony. And if we look at a larger perspective, that also goes to our universe,
and galaxy. Why is earth not pulled by the massive gravitational pull of the sun? And if the sun is not that great, why does the earth drift away from the sun and goes to deep space? Why is Earth is just the right temperature, if we go further that the sun, we will freeze. If we go close, we will burn. Why is the planes and moons harmoniously circles around the sun? IT IS NOT COINSIDENTAL. Someone had put it that way. Those are just a very few examples. All of these scientific evidence is already pointing that there is a Supreme Being. Science is already showing us.

Francis Lim said...

hello gilbert,
this is francis lim...before anything else...thanks for including me in Tropa 2....it's an honor indeed to be involved in a project with industry stalwarts such as yourself, Alanguilan, Hugo Awardee Medina et al.....if any student could have said such a thing...it would have to have been Einstein..I am sure I will find this argument very helpful with my friends....again, thanks very much...Francis

Leinil Francis said...
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Leinil Francis said...

Hello guys,

cute story but just a little note:

Einstein is an atheist but uses the word "god" as a metaphor for Nature. He believes in Spinoza's god which is non-personal. Use Wikipedia as a jumping board. (search Einstein).

This is an Urban Legend with a Professor that has no idea of how science works and what things like INFERENCE and INDUCTIVE REASONING are.

There are many FACTS in science that are not derived from direct observation. All (talking and walking) people having brains is one as pointed out in this little anecdote.

we know this through inference. Every single (normal) person with their heads cut open has a brain so it is a fact (even without MRI scanners) that we all have brains. The probability of finding a brain on the next person to be cut open is extremely high that it only makes sense to assume that everyone has one.

Another fact: Everyone will die before they reach 150. This has yet to be observed and it could be impossible to observe but this is a fact. The probability is so high based on past observations that is safe to assume we all die before we reach 150. (tho medical advancement will probably cause this fact to be modified).

Fact: Pluto orbits the Sun every 240 or so years. Has it been observed? No. Pluto was discovered around 70 years ago. Not even HALF an orbit has been observed. But again, through the partial observation of Pluto and the movements of the moon, earth and other planets, it is assumed that Pluto will not jump around and make erratic movements.

Again, Inference and Inductive reasoning is a huge part of science:) The Professor needs to go back to school.

Ferres said...

Unfortunately; he did not realize that this 'parable' is a stealth attack and a demonization of secular principles.

Yes, it is a fabrication and such things won't fly in the information age.

Is faith so weak one needs lies to support it?

monsanto said...

Why is it that when wrong infos are done with all their might, we accept it agad? Someone promoting something like faith we tend and TRY so hard to bastardize it? If faith is so weak? Well, man is weak and should be constantly reminded to try and think about it. That is why we have priests di ba? Evil and wrong has no moral issues and will use everything they can use to promote bad deeds. Faith is faith, without it I'll find myself in limbo. The absence of faith will be my doom.

The parable here may be flawed. but the logic isn't.

Ferres said...

As you say, faith should be enough, stand on it's own legs.

When lies and fabrications like these are brought up and used to promote faith, the integrity of the message is lost and everything said is brought into question.

Faith without integrity is just blind zealotry.

martin said...

so what are you saying here, ferres? are you trying to point out that only true-to-life experiences can be faith-promoting?

let us not forget that Jesus himself used parables to teach principles and strengthen people's faith.

if there is anything virtuos, lovely, or of good report, we should seek it -regardless if its fiction or not.

Ferres said...

I'm questioning the means/method by which this 'lesson' is presented.

Whoever started this urban legend is clearly not Jesus. And he made use of a real person in a fashion akin to celebrity gossip journalism.

It disparages the faith and makes great ammunition for it's detractors.

Parables are presented as parables, this one on the other hand requires a disclaimer.

Leinil Francis said...

Martin,

so you are for the "Lying for Jesus" mentality? (see the quotes at the bottom of post)

We can lie to people as long as it brings them closer to God or bring about good feelings?

other examples:

Evolution is "just" a theory and not a fact. the chariots and lost egyptian artifacts were found at the bottom of the red sea, Noah's ark found, Einstein believes in God, gods, a god. Darwin recanted Natural selection in his deathbed, Atheism=Holocaust and the other claims of the movie EXPELLED, numerous acts to get Intelligent design into schools, condoms are unreliable in preventing HIV and have holes in them.....

If the "elders" of the churches have to do all these lies (and more) just to keep the faithful, how could you trust their other claims?

Would you like your children/family to be exposed to similar propaganda but instead promotes another god or religion? Islam, hinduism and others?

I'm with ferres on this one. if it's a parable, make it clearly so and add a disclaimer.

============


It's Ok to lie for God according to these church fathers:

"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived." Bishop Eusebius, 4th century Christian scholar


"Do you see the advantage of deceit?


... For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of the mind ...


And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived." John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian, Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1


"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides." Ignatius Loyola, 16th century founder of the Jesuits


and finally this doozie...


"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them." Martin Luther, 16th century theologian, monk, Christian reformer

monsanto said...
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monsanto said...

I see now. Actually, kailangan lang alisin ang name ni Albert E at ok na eh.

Pero kung sinabi diyan na si Hitler ang nagsalita pero totoo kunwari ha? Masama ba?

I think not, because hitler as a child is not the Hitler, the war criminal yet di ba?

Pero tama kayo dapat may disclaimer ito.

Leinil Francis said...

When the lies are exposed, doesn't it then damage the credibility of the other teachings? Doesn't it blur the line between facts and fabrication?

and lastly, Is it really ok with you to be fed inaccurate information?

monsanto said...

The only false na nakikita ko ay yung kung sino ang nagsabi eh. In fact I don't really care if the student was Rizal or a bobo student from my school.

All I really cared about is the arguement and the logic about faith. Kung sa logic ako nagdududa, well... di ko paniniwalaan. Pero I do believe about faith and I do believe it works that way eh.

I also believe that science should not be against God. Kahit gaano katalinong tao ay may hangganan sa pagiintindi sa science at kapag umabot ka dun paano? Magic na ang tawag mo dun?

I believe naman na ang religion ang source ng pagkakawatak-watak sa tao eh. Pero best characteristic ng isang civil na tao ay ang pagrespect sa belief ng isang kapwa tao.

Leinil Francis said...

hey bert,

there is still the issue with how science derives it's facts.... but I'll let it go:)

basically, as I've said, It is a fact that there will be sunrise tomorrow not because of faith but because it has been observed, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of times that the sun always shines at about the same time each day. It's still empirical evidence.

Is there a chance that the sun will not rise tomorrow? sure... but the probability is extremely small.. .so it is scientifically factual to say that it will rise tomorrow.

But at the end of the day, yes, science can't disprove God.... but also a host of other gods and other supernatural claims.

monsanto said...

"But at the end of the day, yes, science can't disprove God.... but also a host of other gods and other supernatural claims."

ah yes, the unexplained stuffs. There is where my hope lies that there is a small chance that we are right about believing blindly and with faith and that there is a God. In fact if there is a devil much better. May devil eh di proof na may God hehe.

martin said...

leinil,

thanks for going out of your way and researching those quotes. but whoa, whoa, whoa... take it easy, man.

i'm not saying that we should accept lies. i'm just saying that fiction is fiction and a parable is a parable.

our job as readers is to pick out the good lesson we can learn from the story we read.

but hey!.. thanks for summarizing the parable for all of us. this is the parable's main point in your own words:

"at the end of the day, yes, science can't disprove God.... but also a host of other gods and other supernatural claims."

thanks, leinil.

martin said...

gilbert,

ever noticed how quick a post attracts attention when its about religion?

perhaps you should post more like these next time. heheheh..

nilkron said...

martin,

you're right, sorry about that. I may have jumped the gun too soon on you. may have confused other comments from other boards.

yeah, bert! make it a weekly topic. hahaha... joke. take it easy guys.

Leinil Francis said...

woops. used a different account... Nilkron is my secret agent name.

Leinil Francis said...

Oh, man.. I missed the jab at evolution as just another opinion and just another religion (the preacher part).

I really have a huge problem with the arguments of this story. sorry.

every point the student brings up is just.... wrong:(


But just consider this guys: The student could be promoting another god or another belief (scientology)... or maybe astrology and psychic power, and I would still have a problem with it. It is coincidental that the god involved is Yahweh.

Francis Lim said...

I think it's good that a lot of people really care enough about this topic to write so fervently. This debate has been going on for quite some time already. Great philosophers, thinkers, all the way to the time of Paul the apostle of the Gentiles. If we read his letters to Corinthians, Thessalonians etc..we would see that he argued against much the same thing that we do today. So, I doubt that anything can be settled conclusively here. Though, if I may leave with this one thought.....the origin of the Universe. Now, that's a biggie....the end all and be all. How did it start? Think of it millions of galaxies, countless stars and planets....our Earth....billions of sentient beings. The Bible says God made it all...science says it just came to be....hmmmmm...let's consider that for a moment....here we are with absolutely nothing....then the next instant absolutely everything.....or on the other our God the Alpha and Omega....created the universe. I don't know about you but between believing that an all-powerful God created everything or that nothing created everything, I think I'll go with God. I guess, I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Leinil Francis said...

Howdy,

my objection is on the wrong information and logical fallacies in the anecdote, which is unwittingly being passed on as fact.

God/creator of 100 billion billion galaxies doesn't need fabricated evidences and propaganda.

I love the Philippines and proud to be Pinoy but I wouldn't want to proliferate urban legends about Agapito Flores, Inventor of the Fluorescent Lamp for example. Do you?

monsanto said...

Nil: If there is a better story than this one, I'll be glad to direct people there.

What I can do now actually is if you dissect this one or edit it and put that in a blog or Journal. I will promote that sight so people can make a better judgement on the matter.

I know what you are saying, but if I say that ok folks, this one is questionable. I am afraid they will say that the Idea of Faith and God IS also questionable giving more power to athiests. I am not willing to do that.

It is not a matter of which religion people are in, I don't care if it is Allah or Yahweh they call their maker. As long as it the best one that will keep them whole at peace and humane. If a religion gets too extreme to the point of eradicating other beliefs, that is just so wrong for me. We are people of FREE WILL.

Anyway, what I am proposing is that if anyone is willing to sort out all the facts and put in a blog, put a link here so that people can choose logically and without malice if they would like to believe in FAITH or NOT.


Like I said, I am a man of faith, and without it I'd feel empty. Before and after I read about this story, did nothing to my faith. It was a forwarded message that made me smile. My faith does not need any fuel to keep on burning. My soul is doing that already.

Peace be with you. Remember it is not peace be with US? peace starts with one's self, if you are not at peace, how the heck can you promote it?